>how to go about it. Any suggestions?, books?, anything?

You could check out some of the links at the end of "Building a Pond". The only problem I find with books is that they get too darned technical. It ain't brain surgery after all though some books would have one believe otherwise. Pretty much common sense is all it takes.

Hope this helps.

Hi again:

I ran into a new product from Bend Tarp and Liner in Bend, OR. there home page is http://www.empnet.com\bendtarp

They say that their 24mil REINFORCED tarps are better than any 45 mil rubber or PVC. Have you ever heard of them and what's your opinion if you have one.

I really have no idea.When I get a chance I'll check out their home page but your guess would be as good as mine {smile}. BTW we used 60 mil rubber roofing here the last time.

Pond,Excellent
Pond Comments,Thanks for the info! I am an aquatic scciences student at college in NY planning to start my own garden pond comp. after graduation (thats the dream). Any and all information sources you could point me toward would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and efforts.

Chris Gerbig

Thanks again

Thanks your kind note. Any of the links I show at the end of Pond would be a good place to start. The KOI USA reference has a wealth of technical info. The Environmental Organization .... reference is another good place to look around. Assuming you're looking for technical info that is. At any rate they will have links to other places as well.

Lee.

I shut the barrel filter and waterfall down when it starts to freeze (usually in Dec or Jan in NJ shore). Just 1) lift the pump out of the pond; 2) drop the drain hose; and voila - all done. {grin}

I am a new ponder and will be installing my first pond this spring. I am looking for all the "cheap" ideas that I can get.

I live in the St. Louis area and would love to hear from other ponders in this area. My e-mail address is: lmeeks@stlmo.com

Sorry I can't help you there. Maybe if you post on one of the sites whose links are provided at the bottom of my Pond Page you can find some local ponders there.

Ed,

Have at it Ed, it's a great pasttime. Gee, Florida. Makes me jealous. You'll be able to keep tropicals (Angels, mollies, etc.). Been as low as 15 degrees here this winter so my upper pond is frozen over with snow on top. Before the snow I was able to see a couple minnows and a gold fish still swimming. The bottom pond just started to freeze (it still has the small power heads pumping which keeps the surface water moving so it hasn't frozen yet) and all fish are healthy in it. Lost one small goldie is all.

Skip,

Dunno about any more suggestions other than to make sure you make it as big as you can, especially the filters.

The barrel can go anywhere. Hide it behind a tree, shed or anything if you want. All you need to do is have long enough hoses. Plastic pool hoses are pretty cheap and can be cut to any length. Just make sure they are big enough so you don't cut down the capacity of the pump.

Please respond about this filter.

All I can tell you is: MY WATER STAYS CRYSTAL CLEAR (except for detrius from a neaby pine tree and petals from the hanging impatiens). For the spring and summer months it gets effectively full sun. That it's due to the lava filter is beyond question in my mind. Algae WILL GROW on surfaces and is actually a healthy thing.

The salesman may want to sell you an ultra violet light claiming that will do the same thing and it may well (as long as you change the bulb every 9 months to a year).

One secret is having a sufficient volume of water passing through the lava. As I said I have the equivalent of at least one pond volume per hour going through mine.

I have asked several people and none of their answers were satisfactory (ie, "just cut a hole and run a pipe through it with a lot of silicone around it", etc.)

Okay. I used a "hole attachment" on my electric drill. A hole attachment allows you to cut various size holes in wood. There are expensive ones that electricians use, but I just have a cheap one (probably under $10) that has various hole size blades. You oughtta be able to get on in a hardware store or a Rickels. You wouldn;t wanna be doing production work with one, but it's okay for light plywood and plastic. It looks like a bunch of concentric circles stuck in grooves in a plate. The back side of the plate has a 1/4" shaft that goes in the grill. Just put the circle size you wanna make in the plate and you're in business.

What kinds of fittings did you use, how did you cut the hole and where did you get the fittings?

I got my fittings at a marine supply store. They are called "thru-hull" fittings. If you can find then at a plumbing store they should be cheaper. Mine (3) cost me in the 12-15$ range, which is way too much but I wasn't in the mood to shop around. I've seen them for about 1/2 that since.

For my input from the pump I have a 1" id and 2 1" id for the discharge at the top. For the drain on the bottom, I have a 1 1/4" id. (Don't use smaller, you'll be sorry.)

After you match up the pipe size with your cutting blade, you're in business. After the hole is cut, *LIBERALLY* put silicone on both sides of the fitting before tightening it up. (It will be threaded and have a nut to clamp it to the barrel.

How big's your pond? And what are you using now?

I used a door knob hole cutter (about the same thing as you discribed) to cut the hole. None of the plumbing places around here acted like they knew anything about a fitting to go in a hole in plastic (or anything else) that would sort of seal around the hole, other than to just run my 2" pipe through the hole and put silicone on both sides of it (which is what I ended up doing).

I have a 15 gal. Rubbermaid type container which sits (completely submerged) in the top pool of my waterfall. I ran the 2" pipe from the submersed pump up to the top of the waterfall and down to the bottom of the filter, through the wall of the filter and across the bottom with 1/2" holes drilled in the piping running across the bottom of the filter. I have plastic 1/2 inch hardware cloth over the pipe, then lava rock and some river rock pretty much filling the filter with a piece of synthetic fiter padding clamped to the top of the filter.

Occasionally, I take the synthetic filter mat out and hose it clean, then clamp it back on to the top of the filter. The water fills the top of the waterfall, and falls 3 times to get back into the pond. I'm not at all satisfied with my silicone seal job, as I know that the silicone hasn't really done anything (water is coming out of filter around the pipe). As the leak is in the water, it isn't really causing any major problems, but I think I probably need a better system. I've been reading about out of pond systems, and am considering trying that, but I have to perfect the connections first.

My pond is 10' x 14' with a 3 1/2' waterfall at one end and is about 2' deep over most of the bottom with 1' deep shelves around part of the perimeter for plants.

Since I also live near the ocean, I should be able to find the fittings at a marine supply store, if I can't find them cheaper somewhere else.

We had some serious problems with hurricanes Bertha and Fran this past summer, so any free time was spent trying to clean the yard up from the fallen trees, etc, and getting most of the debris out of the pond. It's amazing how much stuff ends up in the pond when the winds blow! Especially when there are whole trees down all over the place! :-)

Is your filter out of the pond? What is it in? Now, an obvious question to me is, if your filter has a bottom drain that drains with gravity, that means that your filter is elevated on something, right? Something like a few bricks, or cinder blocks or what? How high does it have to be? Or am I way off base?

. Thanks for your help. :-)
Bambi
cantrell@onslowonline.net

Bambi,

>I used a door knob hole cutter (about the same thing as you discribed) >to cut the hole.

Yeah the only difference being you must fit the thru-hull fitting to the hole rather than the other way around. Another name for the fittings is "Bulkhead" fitting.

None of the plumbing places around here acted like they knew anything about a fitting to go in a hole in plastic (or anything else) that would sort of seal around the hole

I'm guessing there is "no meeting of the minds" and/or you're both speaking different languages. Another place to try would be a swimming pool supply place. If all else fails, call 800-733-3829 (That Fish Place in PA) and ask for an Aquarium Catalog. I buy lotsa stuff there for my salt water setup.

I have a 15 gal. Rubbermaid type container which sits (completely submerged) in the top pool of my waterfall. I ran the 2" pipe from the submersed pump up to the top of the waterfall and down to the bottom of the filter, through the wall of the filter and across the bottom with 1/2" holes drilled in the piping running across the bottom of the filter. I have plastic 1/2 inch hardware cloth over the pipe, then lava rock and some river rock pretty much filling the filter with a piece of synthetic fiter padding clamped to the top of the filter.

For the size of your pool, 15 gal seems pretty small. If it keeps the water crystal clear, fine. But I'm betting you have occasional algae problems (murky water). Further your setup has no mechanism for draining or flushing the internal rock. I'll bet if you take the rock out, you'll find it packed with mud (floc) and the water that does get through is coming up through "channels" with little overall contact with the rock. The object it to keep the lava clear so that moving water comes into contact with it continually.

Why would you use river rock instead of lava (assuming you had plenty lava) for filtering purposes? It has nowhere near the surface area for the bacteria to grow. You are cutting down your filter capacity major league.

Occasionally, I take the synthetic filter mat out and hose it clean, then clamp it back on to the top of the filter. The water fills the top of the waterfall, and falls 3 times to get back into the pond. I'm not at all satisfied with my silicone seal job, as I know that the silicone hasn't really done anything (water is coming out of filter around the pipe). As the leak is in the water, it isn't really causing any major problems, but I think I probably need a better system. I've been reading about out of pond systems, and am considering trying that, but I have to perfect the connections first.

My pond is 10' x 14' with a 3 1/2' waterfall at one end and is about 2' deep over most of the bottom with 1' deep shelves around part of the perimeter for plants.

The bottom line is, if your water is clean and you're satisfied with it., then don't fix what ain't broke. The waterfall is a BIG help in filtration (oxygenation plus any grass that grows acts as a further filter - taking nutrients out of the water, etc.)

As far as washing the mat on top, if it's not plugged then you are washing away bacteria that has grown there. If it is plugged, then imagine what the inside of your barrel looks like.

> Is your filter out of the pond?

Yes. It sits alongside, and dumps into, a raised "settling" pond behind the waterfall.

>What is it in?

Dunno what you mean by that, It's a plastic 55 gallon drum exactly as depicted on the Pond Page. It has 4 or 5 cubic feet of lava rock in it.

Now, an obvious question to me is, if your filter has a bottom drain that drains with gravity, that means that your filter is elevated on something, right? Something like a few bricks, or cinder blocks or what?

Exactly.

>How high does it have to be?

High enough so that the top can flow into the upper pond.

I suggest you log onto my Pond Page again and print it out so you have something to refer to when talking to your plumbers, etc.

. Hi-enjoyed your page. Thanks. We have two small ponds-the larger about 8'x8'x15"...obviously too shallow, even though our goldfish overwintered. We would like to make it deeper and I would love to have waterlilies grow in the bottom. I have been trying to find information on setting up a pond without a rubber liner-ie-a dirt bottom. We have mostly clay and it hold water fairly well but is coffee colored. Any thoughts? Or should I just toss this idea out...?

Thanks for any advice.

>Hi-enjoyed your page. Thanks. Thanks your reply.

>We have two small ponds-the larger about 8'x8'x15"...obviously too shallow, even though our goldfish overwintered.

If your fish survived okay, I would say it's deep enough. That was about the depth of mine for 8 years before we rebuilt it and I never had any problem losing fish but to cold weather. It froze every winter.

I would love to have waterlilies grow in the bottom.

I think you'll have better luck with the water lilies if you put them in large pots and keep them just a few inches below the surface. They may do all right at 15" but I have better luck in shallower water.

I have been trying to find information on setting up a pond without a rubber liner-ie-a dirt bottom. We have mostly clay and it hold water fairly well but is coffee colored.

If it holds the water ok, nothing wrong with that. If the brown color is from runoff into it there's not much you can do short of diverting the runoff away from the pond. If the color is from algae growth you can almost certainly clear it up using a lava filter and a large enough pump (as I described on the Pond page).

Thinking of a pond this year & your info helps. I have an established pond & want to put fish in it. (sounds simpler than it will be, I'm sure) Susannah sjw@westol.com

Dan,

You sent:

Pond,Excellent
Pond Comments,Great Page. I have a small pond on my patio and am installing another larger and deeper pre-formed pond in the backyard. I'd like to use your waaterfall idea but I'm wondering since this is all above ground by 2-3 feet, what should I use as a base to build my rock waterfall on?

My waterfall starts 12-15" off the ground. My son built a sturdy base out of wood (mostly scrap pieces) using a 2x12" 6 or 8 feet long on the ground then built up solid "legs" out of short pieces of 2x12" or whatever we had around. Sortta like this:

               R O C K S
*********************************
  X            X              X
  X            X              X
  X            X              X
  X            X              X
*********************************
     G R O U N D

I'm currently building a 3 hole golf course on a small farm. Actually 4 greens, no tees and 1 fairway. Anyway, the owners have requested I also build them a pond. There is a natural valley in a field near there house I am thinking of developing. The pond would be about 4 feet deep and 60 feet in diameter, it would be in ground on one side and above ground on the lower side. The irrigation system for the golf course is supplied by a 1 hp well on the property. I am planning to use this for the pond as well. I'm wondering if a pond liner is necessary? I'm sure there are a number of different products in pond liners but what would be a ballpark figure for a liner this size? Also runoff downstream of the pond is not a problem. Any help you can give me would be very appreaciated.

Thanks,
C. mark Schmid
ed1@erols.com

Mark,

Dunno that I can be much help here. That's WAY BIGGER than my experience. {grin}.

I'll give you my best guesses though:

I'm wondering if a pond liner is necessary?

If the ground doesn't have a clay base the water will just seep back into the ground. You'll just have to try it and see.

As far as liners go, I would investigate using rubber roofing. Don't really know but would guess you could glue roofing together for about $1500-$2000. Big job though. My son used a 12" overlap (we had no leaks) and lotsa glue.

After putting the liner down, I'd put 12" or so of topsoil in a section and 12" gravel in another. 12" is not a hard number, just a guess. Between the topsoil and the gravel you will have a varying bottom for stuff (water lilies, cattails, etc.) to grow in. The topsoil (mud) will provide a place for the frogs and turtles to winter over

I'd lay some "holey" pipes under the gravel with elbows on one end and pipes sticking up. That way later on you could add a couple *small* pumps to them to draw water through the gravel for biological filtration (See the UG filter on my Pond page)

In the center (or one end), I'd build a mound of rocks with a large submersible pump in the center pumping water up over the rocks. Lotsa aeration to keep the water healthy. Any kind of waterfall really with as big a volume as is practical.

Stick in lotsa feeder goldfish. There'll be a temptation to put in wild fish (Bass, sunnies, etc) but they are natural "hiders" and they'll be seldom seen.

Dunno how much more I can add. Good luck to you.

(A few weeks later) Hi Mark,

I JUST got a catalog from Aquatic-Ecosystems that will be right up your alley for what you want to do. call 800-422-3939 and ask for a catalog. It's free and will answer MANY questions for you.

I went out today and bought a large bag of 1/2" Lava rock and went to work making two filters.(The Ice has just melted.) I made two in pond Filters,what I did was use a 4 gal plastic bucket, placed the sump pump on the bottom of the bucket and filled it around the pump and to the top of the bucket with lava rock, with the hose comming out the top of the filter, hooked the hose to the water fall, plugged it in and bingo it is working fine and within 2 or 3 hours the ponds were clear.

The true test will be this summer, I hope it will not clog as often I will up date you this summer

> Dale Laughlin
dalel@westol.com

Dale,

If it's big enough, it should work fine. It will take several weeks of warm weather for the bacteria to grow. What you likely had was particulate matter in the water.

As you said the true test will come when the water warms up. Don't know for sure but I don't think algae will grow much when the water's under 50 degrees (although I do have a little in my shallow upper pond where the lava filter has been off since sept.) Still cold here (below freezing often at night) yet, we have had a few warm days where it got near 70 and I expect that's when the algae grew.

I haven"t read in detail yet on your filter, but found it interesting. I readd an article by Norm at Koi Usa on horizontal flow filtration as well. My pond at home will hold 18,500 gallons since I am putting in an edpm liner from Tetra in the remaining fiberglass structure of my old in ground swimming pool. I was going to put the old filtration system back in with a sand filter instead of a DE-but need a good biological filter. I wonder how big it would need to be and I wanted to build it out of rubbermaid stock waterers. If you have time and any comments would really like to hear from you. Thank you

Judy Gray
jgray@ezl.com

Judy,

I don't really have any more details to offer other than what's on my Pond Page. Wow, 18,000 gals is probably 10 times as big as my pond. I'm sure you won't "pack" it as much with fish (I have close to 200) though.

If I were you I think I would probably build a barrel filter (with an eye to maybe adding another one later) feeding into as large a "settling pond" (SP) as I could make (space limitations) with a gravel bottom as described. If you can raise the SP (build it on legs) several feet above the pool so the overflow falls into the pool it will give good aeration. Coming down a rock wall face would be very attractive I should think. The SP wouldn't have to be very deep, 6 to 12 inches should be plenty. If you make the top about 4' high with a 6-12" lip around it, it makes a nice place to put some potted plants and is a *GREAT* spot to just lean on and daydream.

The barrel filter will easily accomodate a 1/2 horse pool pump. I know because I had one hooked up to mine just to try it out. (Have one from a previous pond experiment . The sand filter plugged up very quickly though (within a few days)).

I'd put several inches of *white* gravel on the bottom of the pool just for visibility purposes if nothing else. Make sure you WASH the gravel first though. It's covered with a fine dust that'll plug the fish gills otherwise (I lost a bunch of nice 4 year old goldfish that way).

And before I put the gravel on the bottom I'd *surely* put several (at least 6) long PVC pipes drilled full of holes down on the bottom first each with an elbow and a pipe coming up the side of the pool. I'd cover the holed pipes with a coarse fiber matting (to keep the gravel from plugging the holes). That way I could put a small "power head" (they're cheap and burn almost no electricity) on top of each each pipe. They'll give a top-to-bottom circulation plus excellent biological filtration through the gravel. They shouldn't plug up as they pump *relatively* little water for the *large* size of their intakes. I let mine go all winter (shut the barrel filter and waterfall down in December) and the water stayed crystal clear (there's very little biological activity either with the water or the fish when the water gets below 50 degrees).

Pond,Excellent
Pond Comments,Great information about the waterfall. I only wish you >would have gone into depth about it a little bit more. :-)

THanks your evaluation. I'll see if I can't make it a lilltle more clear for you.{grin}

And I was glad to find out that you used Flag Stone Rock, right? Since you said it was flat, so I just assume you did. :-)

I don't know if it is called FlagStone Rock. I don't think so. It's my impression that flagstone is *roughly* uniform in thickness (around 1") and often in size (around 1 sq foot). The rocks I used are called "fieldstone" (around here) and is used for lanscaping decorations.

But when you used cement to connect it, would have hurt the pH balance? or something?

No I didn't use cement. THey are just placed one on top of another to a height of about 4 feet. Cement MAY cause PH problems (I honestly don't know) but I shouldn't think it would be a large factor in a waterfall, nor for very long if it is. I have seen some very nice waterfalls (and pools) where cement was used extensively. You may be able to get an inert type, or plastic based if you think it will be a problem.

Oh, another thing what do you put under the flag stone rocks and the liner to get it 4 feet high? Dirt or all rocks? I very lost on this waterfall creation thing and I'm almost done with my pond. But I don't know what to do about starting a waterfall. :-( So any help on any other web sites or books or your advise will greatly help me to the right track.

Okay what we did here is (and I'll try to "sketch" it for you) build a wall out of plywood down from the upper pond to the edge of the lower one. Sortta like this.

     Upper Pond    
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                                         
  UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU P L W ~
                    P L WWW ~
                    P L WWWW ~
                    P L WWWW ~
                    P L WWWWW ~
                    P L WWWWW ~
                    P LLLL WWW ~
     Ground         BBBB L WWW ~         
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG L WWW ~  Lower pond
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG L WWW ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG   WWW ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

The upper pond (UUUUU) has supports holding it up (not shown here).

The Plywood (Represented by the vertical P's) is nailed to those supports.

The base (BBB) sits on the ground (GGG).

A six foot piece of Liner (L's) runs from inside the Upperpond, down the face of the Plywood, on top of the Base and down into the Lower pond.

The rocks (WWWW) are stacked on top of the base (and on top of the liner piece). ((Note - See "A Waterfall Base")

Any water that gets behind the rock wall just runs down the liner and back into the lower pond.

At the top of the wall there will be a gap between the rocks and the wall the water will fall into. We solved that problem by laying another piece of scrap liner about a foot wide on top of the rocks and down into the Upper Pond. We then laid rocks on top of that to hide it.

It's your business Keith but I think I would try this method (using no cement) first and then if I wasn't satisfied then go to cement. Nothing is permanent here, although there are distinct advantages to using cement.

Good Luck to you and write back and let me know how you are doing.

i'm buying a house with a koi pond in the entry. it's a figure 8 about 6 feet by 3 feet and maybe 12-18 in deep. there are 4 mature fish, each about 8-10 inches.

there's an electric filter and pump with a little fountain spurting out which i know is good for oxygen. the filter is about 1 ft square with a piece of something in it -- white material about an inch thick.

my questions (i've read all kinds of stuff and can't tell) -- is that enough space/water for four fish? there used to be five and one jumped out -- it was awful. are they too crowded? how do i know if they're "unhappy"? i'd hate them to be living in a little hell or something. if it is too small, what are my alternatives. i've heard they'll die if they're moved somewhere else.

oh -- i'm in sausalito, california. no freezing weather. occasional 90s in the summer. how cold is too cold and how hot is too hot?

THANKS!

i've been searching around the net from some specific info and it's a little hard to find...

Not so hard, you found me . Dunno ho much help I'll be.

i'm buying a house with a koi pond in the entry. it's a figure 8 about 6 feet by 3 feet and maybe 12-18 in deep. there are 4 mature fish, each about 8-10 inches. ...... there's an electric filter and pump with a little fountain spurting out which i know is good for oxygen. the filter is about 1 ft square with a piece of something in it -- white material about an inch thick.

You can't have too much oxygenation, the stuff of life you know. The white material probably provides both bacterial and mechanical infiltration.

my questions (i've read all kinds of stuff and can't tell) -- is that enough space/water for four fish?

From what you described above there should be PLENTY water for 4 fish, even 40 fish with decent filtration.

there used to be five and one jumped out -- it was awful. are they too crowded?

Absolutely not. If a fish jumped out, well .... no one ever said fish had any sense.

how do i know if they're "unhappy"? i'd hate them to be living in a little hell or something.

If the water is clean that's about all you can do for them. You might want to set up an additional gravel filter on the bottom, if practical, for bacterialogical filtration and circulation for oxygen exchange. Cost maybe $35 all together. Be a good base to plant stuff in as well. If interested I'll send details.

if it is too small, what are my alternatives. i've heard they'll die if they're moved somewhere else.

It sounds to me just fine. And if you do have to move them, as long as reasonable care is taken they should also be fine then as well.

oh -- i'm in sausalito, california. no freezing weather. occasional 90s in the summer. how cold is too cold

My ponds freeze over every winter and my fish are fine.

and how hot is too hot?

I've seen my water reach 90+ (rarely) and the fish are fine as well. The key to warm water is sufficient oxygen. If you have a fountain that should be more than adequate.

Go to a fish (aquarium) store and buy some plants. Anacharis (a floater) is very good. Fish will nibble on it and it will act as a filter as well (using fish waste to grow).

THANKS!

Relax. Sounds like you have a neat setup. Kick back and enjoy it. Consider the gravel filter as I said above. They work really well.

I found your web site while surfing, and read your page for lava rock filters. I became very interested and built one the very next day. It has already cleared the pond in just a half day running.Just one thing I thought you might be interested in, we have hydro interuption in our area often therefore when the pump is shut down the filter empties back into the pond through the pump line. A small check valve or foot valve or a pcv valve from your automobile in the line would prevent this from happening. (Just something to think about)

I bought my liner from an outfit called Reef industries in Texas which is in the business of making large liners for landfills and such, but they will gladly sell you any size you order, about 50 cents a square foot.

Anyway, over the past year we built up a pretty nice inventory of mostly fancy tailed goldfish, some are approaching 18 inches long, and assorted lilies, cattails, and other plants.

The only problem was the green water. My wife discovered that frequent water changes, we have a good shallow well, helped some but the green water persisted. I recently found out that the water changes are not good for the fish or the pond.

I saw your pond page and read about your lava rock filter, and using that as a basis I designed my own filer. I used a 30 gallon plastic drum which contains 3 cubic feet of rock. I brought my inlet pipe over the top and down to a pvc manifold at the bottom, just above the crate top.

I am using the same 25 cubic foot mechanical filter and pump that I have been using the past year in a losing battle which flows about 8 gpm through the bio filter. I kicked off this system 2 weeks ago and after about 3 days I could begin to see the water start to clear.

At this time it is perfectly crystal clear and I can hardly believe it. About once a day I clean the mechanical pre filter which takes about 2 minutes, but it is now to the point where there is not much left to filter out. I haven't flushed out the bio filter yet and do not plan to do so unless the flow decreases or the water starts to cloud up.

Again, your page started me on the right path. I was afraid that a that a 30 gallon filter would not be large enough to do much good, but I couldn't be more pleased.

Thanks a lot.

Enjoying the fish in Florida.

Am tickled pink by your letter.

At 08:36 PM 5/6/97 -0400, you wrote:

............I bought my liner from an outfit called Reef industries in Texas which is in the business of making large liners for landfills and such, but they will gladly sell you any size you order, about 50 cents a square foot. Anyway, over the past year we built up a pretty

If you would send the address for Reef Industries I'll post it on the Pond page. Am sure many would be interested in it.

nice inventory of mostly fancy tailed goldfish, some are approaching 18 inches long, and assorted lilies, cattails, and other plants. The only

18", wow, I'm impresssed. My largest fish (koi) is not much over 12". We have a MUCH shorter growing season (water over 60-70 degrees). *Must* be the reason {grin}.

problem was the green water. My wife discovered that frequent water changes,.............. I kicked off this system 2 weeks ago and after about 3 days I could begin to see the water start to clear. At this time it is perfectly crystal clear and I can hardly believe it. About once a day I clean the mechanical pre filter which

Absolutely amazing ain't it? One of those thing you have to see for yourself to believe.

takes about 2 minutes, but it is now to the point where there is not much left to filter out. I haven't flushed out the bio filter yet and do not plan to do so unless the flow decreases or the water starts to cloud up.

Think you're making a mistake here. The bacteria produce floc (a byproduct akin to feces) and it may begin to plug the lava rock. What I do is flush mine each time I have to clean the prefilter (once, twice a week - two minute job too) . If you wait until the flow slows down (as long as the prefilter is not what's slowing it down) it means that pressure will have built up inside the filter forcing the floc into the pores of the rock. Then you will have a nasty cleaning job (been there, done that). That's why I *emphasized* the large drain on the bottom of the filter. Keeps the floc, mud particles, etc. flushed out.

Again, your page started me on the right path. I was afraid that a that a 30 gallon filter would not be large enough to do much good, but I couldn't be more pleased. Thanks a lot. Enjoying the fish in Florida.

Am in the process of reconstructing a small stream, top basin with ladder step falls using flat rock. Concrete did not hold. Must be this dang cold climate here in Northwest Montana. Suggestions from the Northern pond society were to try spray foam. Question? How does one cover that stuff up, is there a special paint or what?

If climate is too cold for concrete, it almost certainly too cold for decent adhesion of foam would be my guess (Not an expert on either concrete or foam but have used both for other than pond stuff). I just got an email from a fella in Florida:

" I bought my liner from an outfit called Reef industries in Texas which is in the business of making large liners for landfills and such, but they will gladly sell you any size you order, about 50 cents a square foot. "

All the info (address, phone, etc) I have on this at this time.

If at all practical, I would look into laying down rubber roofing for stream bottom and rocks on top. I think rubber roof comes in lengths up to 100' long X 10' (maybe even 20' ) wide. Stuff is pretty easy to work with in even cold weather. Probably be a lot cheaper than other liners, esp if you didn;t have to glue it.

I found a 3200 gal/hr Cal pump, I bought a ball valve, 1-1/2" hose, a fountain with 1/2" fitting, 1/2" hose, a T-Connection, and the odds and ends to put it together. I'm planning to pump the water through the pump from the larger pond through the T-connection. At the T-connection, the water will go one way through the 1/2" hose to the fountain, located in the middle of the larger pond, and the other way through the 1-1/2" hose to the ball valve. At the ball valve, I'm planning to regulate the water flow to allow enough back pressure to work the fountain. After passing through the ball valve, the water will be forced into the lower part of the top barrel, as described above.

Do you have any suggestions or concerns about this design? Please let me know, and thanks again.

Sincerely Yours,
Rob Carrier

Sounds like it will work just fine. The only reservation I have is whether the pump will pump enough pressure to go up the 10-12' and still do the fountain. Many large volume pumps lose capacity rapidly as they try to push/lift water. All depends on impellor type, etc. You'll find out soon enough.

Do you have any suggestions or concerns about this design? Please let me know, and thanks again.

Just Make SURE you have an easy flushing system for the lava filter. If you can filter the water (through a mesh or matting or something) before the pump, it will help a lot too. Easy enough to lift the matting out and flush it with a garden hose.

The other thing I strongly recommend is undergravel setup in the pond itself with a *small* pump(s) drawing through. Just finishing up the first year with my two (they ran all winter while lava filter/waterfall was shut down) and am very pleased. Water stayed crystal clear and only lost one small goldfish (out of 100-150 total). THe reason to use small pumps is so as not to try to draw too much water through gravel and clog it up with dirt etc. Cheap to install & cheap to run (30 watts per pump). Certainly not big enough to carry during warm weather (lots more activity) but fine auxillary.

Also, I'm not clear about the under gravel filter system. Can you give me more details on this?

I don't know if I can explain it any better here than I did on the Pond page. I suggest you print the page so you can study it better. Essentially what I did was lay 1 1/4" PVC pipes drilled full of holes on the bottom and covered them with a porous matting and then a couple or three inches of white gravel. At the end of each pipe is an elbow with a short piece of pipe cut just long enough to be a few inches below the surface.

Go Back

Just use a small 300gph power head for a pump (aquarium store around $20) As long as you don't try to pull a big volume through the gravel, it should never plug up

See - I told you I'd send you an e-mail!

My hubby and I have read your pond info with much attention to your descriptions and detail. We are about to embark on our first pond-creating-experience and find it to be almost more intimidating than the birth of our first son. It all started (the pond; not the son) when my husband (aka Dimmy03@aol.com) decided we HAD to have a duck. He assured me it was only a couple of bucks at the local feed store, a couple more bucks for starter food, a couple more bucks for a kiddie pool for the thing to paddle around in, and *voila* we would have natural snail control for our garden. So here we are, not two weeks later, contemplating lava rocks, 50 gallon drums, waterfalls, etc. It's all too much for me!!!!!

I am very much into using used stuff and liked your ideas about using the scrap sink and/or the kiddie pool - especially since we already have that. I'll try to keep in touch with you as things move along and let you know if we uncover any new tricks, which of your tricks we use and how we like them, and whether or not I can avoid prison for the murder of my husband who has managed to turn a $2 duck into a $bazillion pond project!

Talk at you again soon. Consider yourself warned!

Mimi

Oh Mimi,

>See - I told you I'd send you an e-mail!

Yes and I've been waiting with *baited*breath.

>My hubby and I have read your pond info with much attention to your .............me

it was only a couple of bucks at the local feed store, a couple more bucks ........... gallon drums, waterfalls, etc. It's all too much for me!!!!!

I am very much into using used stuff and liked your ideas about using the ................ and whether or not I can avoid prison for the murder of my husband who has managed to turn a $2 duck into a $bazillion pond project!

Should you look around my site (Warning- Not for kids), you'll find I am/was a commercial fisherman. My favorite is the burned out light bulb.

• The bulb is covered with a heavy glass protector which in turn is covered by a metal screen to keep it from getting broken.
• The metal protector is rusty so you have to use a chisel to get it free.
• Which breaks the glass protector.
• When you get to the bulb, the socket is all corroded.
• While replacing the socket, you find the wires corroded.
• When replacing the wires you break the corroded switch.
• So while replacing the switch, you find even more corrosion.
• Which takes you back to the batteries where (you guessed it).

can you help.? where did you find the 60 mil rubber liners... i live in colorado and ahd the address of a place in Oklahoma but lost it

thanks for your help

bigbob@gj.net

Hi Big Bob,

Only thing I can suggest is to call roofing contractors (get out the yellow pages). You should be able to find it there (if you call enough). Suggest you find several. You might just get *lucky* and find one who has surplus left over from a big job and get it for a steal. Otherwise you're liable to be up around $1 a sqaure foot (one time customer and all that). BTW when you DO build your pond (no matter the size) make sure you put in the gravel filters I described. They are working out GREAT for me. Cheap to build and cheap to run. Not even sure I need the lava filter any more. Got a leak in my waterfall (yet again) and until Kevin gets the time to fix it I keep it turned off for days/weeks at a time (including all winter) but water stays crystal clear even with 200+ fish and full sun.

You might look for landfill contractors too. They make/use HUGE liners. Worth a shot (few phone calls).

Thanks your comments.

Good luck to you and let me know how your pond makes out.

MA Hayward

malmike@olg.com

Nah, you read enough. Just go ahead and learn while you go. Make Sure to put in the undergravel filters though. Other stuff can come later.

rickfalcon@aol.com

My lands, how can you NOT agree with me {grin}?

lmeeks@stlmo.com

Sounds plenty big enough. I know of no rules on sizes.

I am consenced about wintering, I have heard of others having success leaving fish in the pond, and others not, since I want to see this fish readliy/easily, my depth most likely will not exceed 40 inches - Will freeze in Denver)

I don't have any trouble here and my pond freezes every winter though last winter (fairly mild) I kept my 2 UG filters going all winter. Still got cold enough to freeze over moving water but woiuld thaw quickly if a few warmer days.

As far as the need for filtration, I think I have a good understanding of that - had a reef tank for 4 yrs before the relocation.

Tell me about it. Tried a reef but was just too much work/expense. Just got it *right* (after 7-8 months of tinkering) and had a disaster. Happened twice. So I just keep a fish only Salt Water tank (110 gal).

One big ? - I heard roofing liners were toxicx to the fish, did you do anything special to pretreat it?

Don't know about toxic liner. Just put mine down. Nothing special other than washing it off good.

Hello,

My name is Bryan and I plan on building a pond (or two) over the summer before I start my graduate work (I'm a microbiologist) since this may be my last chance in quite some time. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble locating equipment such as pumps, filters,etc. If you could lead me in the direction of a couple good mail order firms I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance,

Bryan

perhaps i'm missing something here? however if you find the time to humor such a stoopid question you could shoot me a e-mail @ wuyang@3n.net I wish i could explain my question better.

Either way thanx for the info.
peace&blessings...
wuyang

wuyang,

(Note this is a reply to my request for help)

From: vjo@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 10:51:49 -0500 (CDT)
To: Gösta
Subject: Re: Yellow leaves

On 06/28/97 18:30:33 Gösta wrote:

>Hi,

>I have a pond and last year and so far this year, my plants haven't been doing well. The parrot feathers and lilies have mostly yellow or very pale color leaves, not that rich dark green I used to have.

>Do you have any ideas? My guess is a nutrient lack and I have added fertilozer but maybe not enough. Have a high goldfish population too with super filtration systems (mostly biological)

>Thanks.

Sounds like a lack a nitrogen. Try a ferti tablet with the lilies or add some ironite to the water.

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 01:56:21 -0500
From: julie ann quinn paquet
To: gosta@exit109.com
Subject: yellow leaves

hi!

i don't know if i can relly help you, but one thing you should check for is the iron level in the water (test for Fe) i don't have any experience in ponds, but you should also see if your plants have too much sunlight burning the leaves.. this is all the info i can give you, and i think you should also look elswhere on the web.. i'm not a pond expert... but if your iron level is low, this means that you have to add more vitamins in the water.. i know that Sera florenette T is a great one!! i hope i helped in some way!!

julie ann (pictus)

(Note- I did add some nitrogen rich fertilizer sticks (JOBES) and the color is coming back)

>i built your lava rock pond filter the other day and i was wondering if it was okay for the water to be a red color...... and how could i make the water clear....

I'm guessing the red color is dust from the lava rock. If you had washed it first you would wouldn't have had a problem. Little matter though. It should settle out in a day or two if not sooner.

From: WSAsianBoy@aol.com
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:19:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: gosta@exit109.com
Subject: Re: Red Water

If this is the right site to ask a question about a pond, I'd like to ask something. We dug a pond too close to a patio to leave room for a flat rock base. So we raised the edging approx 3" high x approx 10" wide. My question is this:

Can I mortar bricks around that edge, fold the liner over them and THEN go with flat rock around the whole affair? What will mortar do to the water and how long will it do it? Can I use the excess dirt to help create a waterfall? Should the pump/fountain be on the opposite side of the pond?
Did I really screw up? Free Willy? Screw Willy, free the Budweiser Clydesdales. Thanks.

Dimmy, >If this is the right site to ask a question about a pond, I'd like to ask >something.

Won't know until you ask now willya?

We dug a pond too close to a patio to leave room for a flat rock base. So we raised the edging approx 3" high x approx 10" wide. My question is this:

>Can I mortar bricks around that edge, fold the liner over them and THEN go with flat rock around the whole affair?

Sure you can. Why put bricks around? Why not just lay the liner on top of whatever the bricks are sitting on and put the flat rocks on top of it directly.

> What will mortar do to the water and how long will it do it?

Probably not much and not for long.

>Can I use the excess dirt to help create a waterfall?

Sure.

>Should the pump/fountain be on the opposite side of the pond?

It gives the best circulation but if it's a pita, try it elsewhere and see how it works. You can always move it.

> Did I really screw up?

You'll find that out sooner or later. Worst thing can happen is you have to do it over. Many of us have done that.

>Free Willy? Screw Willy,

Hellava thing to say to a commercial fisherman.

> free the Budweiser Clydesdales.

>My email address is WSasianboy
>thank you very much....

If you look on the diagram you will see there is a drain on the very bottom with a pool hose connected to it. I just drop the hose on the ground and flush the lava rock from the top with a garden hose, which washes the dirt out the hose.

If you look at the "Pond Pictures" page there is a photograph of the filter that shows the hose and drain clearly.

BTW you should use the Email function when you want a reply. The Comment format does not give your return address. Luckily I remembered your name and was able to find your address (on the Pond Questions Page) or else I would not have been able to answer this.

Great pond Filter information. Can't wait to build my own .

Question: Based upon your experience is there any significant difference between using the pump to "push" dirty water from the pond through the biological filter vs. "pull" clean water from the filter to the pond? Most packaged products seem to utilize the "pull" method.

Thanks.

Grigsby3@aol.com

Thanks your reply.

At 04:32 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Great pond Filter information. Can't wait to build my own .

>Question: Based upon your experience is there any significant difference between using the pump to "push" dirty water from the pond through the biological filter vs. "pull" clean water from the filter to the pond? Most packaged products seem to utilize the "pull" method.

I prefer the submerged pump method if only that it's a simpler setup. No suction leaks, no priming, quiter, less horsepower requirements (not that that is a significant factor, it isn't in a pond application). The number one enemy of electric motors is heat. A submerged pump has a built-in cooling system.

Thanks for your reply. I guess I didn't phrase my question accurately. I meant to ask do you prefer "flow down" or "flow up" bio filters?

G.

G.

At 12:31 PM 7/17/97 -0400, you wrote:

>Thanks for your reply. I guess I didn't phrase my question accurately. I meant to ask do you prefer "flow down" or "flow up" bio filters?

Big difference. I have both (FD on my salt water tank). The advantage to FD is the filter media, while staying wet, is exposed to a lot of air, which encourages bacteria growth, as I understand it.

One disadvantage is they are not as easily home made as the lava rock filter is. Other than my SW tank I have no experience with the FD's. All I know is how well my LR filter works. In full sun, 90+ heat and my water stays crystal clear.

Hi Dusty,

Dino, that damn Italian, said:

Hello, Mr. Gosta.

Just Gösta.

I have a question about, you got it, my pond.

How did I know that {grin}. (He writes a lot.)

First of all, I followed your directions and constructed a bio filter to not the exact, but the same basic idea as yours. My pond, being only about 2000 gallons, I didn't think that the filter should be as big as yours. It's probably 5 or 6 gallons.

My pond is nearly the same size (2100 gals) and my filter is 55 gallons or 10 times as big as yours.

After three days, it cleared the water beautifully. Then, it got murky again, and has been that way.

My guess is that you filtered out (minute) particulate matter (floating algae, plant matter, etc). The reason the water was clear probably was because the water was so murky the light didn't penetrate very far for the water type algae (remember there's all kinds of algae) to grow very much. 3 days is not long enough for the bacteria to get established that eat the ammonia/algae etc. It generally takes 2-3 weeks or longer.

Questions.

> 1. Do I clean the algae off the filter medium?

Sure but it's not a big deal. Don't go nuts worrying about it. After all it's taking nutrients out of the water as well.

2. Do I cover the filter?

Up to you, mine isn't but not a big deal either way.

3. Do I put hyacinths in the filter?

Sure if you want to. Like the algae above, they take nutrients out of the water as well. Now whether you could have enough plants to completely clear the water is highly problematical. As a *general* rule I would say no.

4. How important is a rock bottom on the pond?

It's not *critical* but I wouldn't be without a gravel bottom (as explained in Building a Pond). Many ponds just have a lining bottom and do very well. It's not likely the addition of gravel will create enough surface area in and of itself to keep the pond clean though.

5. Do you think that it just gets too much sunlight and I'm just paranoid?

Paranoid? Of course you're paranoid, all ponders are. It's what makes 'em good ponders. My pond is in FULL sunlight and stays clear.

6. My pump turns the pond over about every four hours. Is that too slow?

Yes, I believe it is. But I think a bigger problem is too small a lava rock filter. If you want you could try a bigger pump (a 2000 gph sump pump costs around/under $100, 1200 gph around $60) and it may be the increased flow past the lava may be enough. I kinda doubt it but you never know.

7. Should I wait a season to see what happens?

No Dino, I don't think so. There's still plenty of warm weather left. I think I would try a bigger pump first (it's the quickest and easiest possible solution). If that doesn't work then you absolutely know your filter is too small and you'll know pretty quickly (visible improvement in a week or two).

I'm pretty sure you're going to have to build a bigger lava rock filter, pump or no, and you just might need both (bigger filter & pump). If $$ are a problem, then it'll probably be cheaper to build the bigger filter first (if you're a good scrounger).

8. Will a catfish take care of some of the algae?

Man DON'T do that if you have fish, particularly small ones (gold fish, minnows, guppies, etc., BIG goldfish, koi, etc. OK ) In June I put a white channel cat in my wife had in her aquarium in school. That sucker must have eaten 50 1 year old gold fish, plus 20 or 30 1minnows I swear, and who knows how many guppies. We finally caught him in August and took him to the fish store. That sucker got big enough to be an entree at Denny's.

So many questions. But nobody else seems to know. So I'm asking you. Lol,

Yeah well I don't know either. Just giving what has (not) worked for me.

I've seen your pictures--gorgeous. Basically, my problem is........green water.

Keep pluggin away, you'll lick it. What you might also try (costs nothing) is to THOROUGHLY flush your existing lava rock. It might be plugged from the earlier particulate load you removed. This is *mandatory* if you see any "channeling" where the water percolates up through the lava rock.

I would also ask, can the pump be put on a timer, or should it run continually?

I would leave it running continually until I got the water clear before I tried a timer, then see how a timer works.

How much should I clean the mechanical filters?

As often as you see the water flow slow down. Generally the dirtier a mf gets the finer it will filter. Just see the letter on Prefilters in Pond Letters for some caveats if your mf is on the suction side.

So many questions.

Yeah we all havem.

One more. Water Poppies. Aphids. Should I let the fish eat'em? Don't want to spray them, and the hose just looses them from the leaves for a little bit. Ideas? Suggestions?

Haven't had that problem (knock wood) but sure let the fish eat them. They would in the wild. Sorry I can't help there. Poppies, huh? Did you get many flowers?

Thanks again.