What's wrong with yEnc?

by Curt Welch, 19 September 2002

This is a post by Curt Welch to news.software.nntp, from a thread about yEnc, reprinted by permission.


Subject: Re: ATTN: news admins - what's wrong with yEnc
From: curt@kcwc.com (Curt Welch)
Date: 19 Sep 2002 22:38:08 GMT
Message-ID: <20020919183808.553$mO@newsreader.com>
Newsgroups: news.software.nntp

Daddy Freddy wrote:

On 19 Sep 2002 15:12:57 GMT, curt@kcwc.com (Curt Welch) wrote:

Daddy Freddy wrote:

Lay it all out. I want to know what evil is happening behind the scenes, because as an end user I'm sure not seeing the problems. Downloads are quicker. My monthly Giganews account lasts longer. I can determine the exact segment that got thwacked in transit because of the CRC. Posting goes along quicker. I think my penis is bigger, too.

So what the hell is wrong with yEnc???

The only thing wrong is that it could have been done a lot better

That can be said of just about everything!

and the fact that it wasn't really upsets some people. It's too late to cry about now. Good or bad, we are stuck with it.

Good or bad, it works as advertised. That's something that can't be said of everything...

Ok, so my point was lost on you. I'll go a little futher to try and help you understand.

We have been working for years to "fix" a large number of binary-on-usenet problems. Usenet is very hard to change because it involves so many indepent organizations (news sites, server developers, newsreader developers, and end-users) that all have their own problems they want to see addressed.

If you had spent the past 10 years in this group like I and many others have, you would have seen all the discussions and ideas that have been debated. And you would have seen all the work going on to help change things as well. Servers have been converted to allow binary data to move on Usenet, but some still remain. Lots of ideas have been debated, and tested in prototype to see which options would be best for encoding binary data once Usenet was ready to carry it. The only reason yEnc can work at all is because of the years of work that went in to converting usenet from a text transport system into a binary transport system (but we weren't done).

We had 10 or 20 problems we were trying to "fix" with a new standard, but had only found workable solutions to maybe 8 of them. We could have stopped at any time and created a new standard to fix the 8 problems we knew how to fix, but we knew that once a new standard was put in place, usenet would be stuck with it for the next 20 years. Fixing only 8 of the problems didn't seem good enough to us to justify being stuck with the solution for what could be the rest of our lives (some of us are old hacks already).

Then Juergen comes along and suggests yEnc. It only fixes 2 of the 20 problems. And, it was a poorly designed fix at that. The standard document he wrote was full of problems that would lead to people creating incompatible encoders and decoders. It was nothing more than a joke compared to the other work in progress.

But the damn thing got leaked out to the "public" anyway and started to catch on because the users really liked the 2 things it fixed for them. By the time we realized it was going to actually take off, it was too late to fix anything. The incompatible encoders were already in the wild and being used. The developers that just had to spend time adding "yEnc" support to their software were not interested in adding "yEnc II" only a month later. And most the changes that were really needed would be incompatable with the current decoders. We just missed the boat because we didn't believe the thing could float.

Like always on Usenet, the standard will develop on it's own now by all the developers "hacking until it works". But now Usenet has seen what we already knew. Converting Usenet to a new encoding system is a painful, slow, and expensive processes. Look at how much time out for life has been wasted in this thread alone on yEnc? Multiply that by the millions of users that have had to "deal" with yEnc. Now, tell me how many of them are going to be willing to convert to yet another new standard 2 years from now (when the conversion to yEnc still isn't finished)?

yEnc is good for the 2 things it "fixed" (uuencode overhead, the lack of CRCs to identify corrupted data). yEnc is bad because it has closed the door on any other new fixes for probably at least another 10 years - new fixes which we already had workable solutions for (like automatcially identifying and combining reposts without the user having to think at all, like allowing news servers to "fix" all the missing part problem by filtering posts by file size instead of by article size, like having a way to detect corrupted articles for all types of posts - not just yEnc posts, like having workable extenstions to NNTP to allow newsreaders to download lists of "files" instead of having to download thousands of duplicate headers, like having news readers be able to know the true "file name" and "hash" of a file before the 500 parts are downloaded to prevent users from having to download duplicates, like allowing NNTP newsreaders do download file attachements in pure binary and not have to deal with any type of "encoding" system. etc, etc, etc).

Enjoy the 2 fixes you got with yEnc, you aren't likely to see the other 10 we were working on for a very very long time. Nobody here has even been talking about that stuff since yEnc took over.

yEnc itself is a hack job, but it's not "bad". What's bad is the fact that with its release, we have lost the one opportunity we had to do so much more.

Maybe we never would have gotten any of those other "good ideas" out the door. So maybe it's good that yEnc is here. A "bird in hand" and all that. But just understand what opportunities were lost once yEnc took over. It's that loss of opportunity that most people are talking about when they say "yEnc is bad".

Usenet is neat because it has a life of it's own. It envolves in directions that no one expects at times. yEnc is just one more example of what makes Usenet such an interesting social experiment.

-- 
Curt Welch                                            http://CurtWelch.Com/
curt@kcwc.com                          Webmaster for http://NewsReader.Com/